INTERVIEW: No kudos to Tinubu yet but nobody will be worse than Buhari — Hakeem Baba-Ahmed

The Director, Publicity and Advocacy, Northern Elders Forum, NEF, Dr. Hakeem Baba-Ahmed advises President Bola Ahmed Tinubu not to rush, but thread with care and not put too much burden on the already overburdened citizenry, adding that the effect of his policy such as liberalisation of the exchange regime, the increase in the cost of power, as well as the inevitable increase in school fees as a result of the education loan will add up to the burden of already overburdened Nigerians.

In this interview with Saturday Vanguard, he also counsels that the President should not appoint anyone with any slightest hint of corruption, emphasizing that Nigeria cannot stand more years of misgovernance, indifference and incompetence of Buhari.  Excerpts.

What is happening in Kano now should be a source of concern for the Northern
Elders like you, don’t you see it as pettiness laced with vengeance?

It is a source of concern. If a legitimate government, elected to respect the rule of law will allocate land and it will be questioned in terms of impropriety then we have a very serious reason to worry. Also, if another government has reason for retrieving that land, except by demolishing all the buildings, then we have double jeopardy. It is difficult to see how to get out of this. Who does more wrong, is it the government that gave out land or the government that operates under the pretext of correcting the ills of past government, embarking on something that has a semblance of vengeance? We are worried and we have to find a way of breaking the vicious circle. Preceding governments have done so many things that are wrong and a new government will say we are going to upturn it. That is our worry now, not so much the buildings. This is a very serious issue, a country like Nigeria cannot progress with this caliber of people that became our governors and legislators. We have to find a way of breaking the circle. We are degenerating.

Is there any internal mechanism of the Northern Elders Forum deployed to call the governors to order?
Well, the governors are new. What we want to do is to start on a very strong footing with all the Northern governors. We are trying to encourage them to adopt uniform policies for a lot of issues that are absolutely essential to reducing insecurity, and poverty as well as dealing with the weaknesses of our traditional institutions and values; dealing with the issue of poor education, girl-child education, and the Al-Majiri education. We believe that we can encourage them to adopt a common position on all of these issues. We used to have one north, now we have 19 governors, a full-blown government with executive, legislators, and judiciary. There is no way we can progress with this style of governance. So, we will encourage them to rise above partisanship and rise above pettiness, and vengeance. Of course, we are worried about what individual governors are doing and that is why we have to caution them and offer words of advice. It is really disturbing. It is not the action of one governor, it is the fact that we don’t appear to understand that the rule of law must be maintained. If you don’t have business allocating land, then you shouldn’t do it even if you have the power under the law. Secondly, if you have the power to demolish buildings that must have cost billions of naira, don’t do it because you have the power, because it couldn’t have been the only option. In between the two positions, we ought to find a way.

I know some of those who emerged as governors are decent and responsible people and we are exploring how we can build a good relationship.

Looking back to Buhari’s government and what we have seen in terms of policy direction, would you say we now have a semblance of a good government?

No, I won’t. Eight years ago when President Buhari came, he cleared all checkpoints, removed Service Chiefs, and ordered the military to relocate to Borno, then Boko Haram was chased and limited substantially.  These were greeted by the same euphoria.  There was enthusiasm that he would fight corruption, insecurity, and a bad economy. But look at where we are now after eight years, we are worse than when he came in. Certainly, the entire country had not been in the situation before. So, forgive me if the Northern Elders Forum has a different perspective on the euphoria as a result of the tentative action or salvo being released by President Tinubu against the economy, corruption and service chiefs, and others. I will rather exercise some reservations. It is good he is starting with some policies, but he has to be very careful, he should not rush into putting in policies just because he wants to be different from Buhari. Although by all means, any worst government will be better than Buhari’s government of misrule, indifference, and incompetence.  I am sorry if I don’t share your enthusiasm (about Tinubu). I will rather advise him to be different from Buhari, and address those issues that needed to be addressed with courage and sensitivity. Buhari had lowered the bar of governance and lowered our status of existence; insecurity and poverty are more pronounced.

So, Tinubu should pay attention to two key things. One, the failures of Buhari can be repeated if not careful, he should not get carried away by the euphoria of actions and picking points. Secondly, he should be careful about policies. For me, I will not rush but I also will not hesitate to put a distance between Tinubu’s administration and Buhari’s. Tinubu’s administration must be infinitely better because this country cannot stand another eight years of misgovernance, indifference, and incompetence.

One of his major policies now is the removal of the subsidy. Yes, a lot of people agree subsidy should go, but do you think it could have been better handled by first providing palliatives to cushion the effect of the removal?

Honestly, I don’t know how better he could have handled it. Incidentally, Tinubu didn’t remove the subsidy. Buhari did by providing for it until June when he knew the new administration would be in place. Tinubu came in and to find out the subsidy had been removed. So, he shouldn’t take credit for removing the subsidy. Yes, he would have removed the subsidy if it was in place, but Buhari removed it.

Yes, but the issue is ameliorating the effect of the removal, by first providing for the attendant hardship, pain, and rising prices of things.

Yes, I agree with you in principle. If I were speaking for Tinubu, I will say, it is not my administration that removed the subsidy. It is Buhari. If he had done that, he would have been giving credit to where it belonged and blame to where it should be laid. Then, it is only on the palliatives that Tinubu will be held responsible. Yes, everybody agreed, it has to go, but do you just remove subsidy and cause a massive decline in our already desperate condition and circumstances under which we live where the cost of living is now ten times higher? It is a legitimate question for some relief. I also want to remind you that it is not just the only thing that is likely to add up. The liberalisation of the exchange regime is also another area that will have a multiplier effect on Nigerians. The increase in the cost of power is also another one. The increase in school fees as a result of the education loan is another one. If one is to advise the Tinubu administration, I will tell him to watch it and not to put too much burden on the already overburdened citizenry. As good as the policies are, some need to be critically examined before you roll them out, while others need to be examined with some level of compassion and sympathy so that you are not seen to be governing a country where 90% of the populace are in desperate choices and circumstances.

So what are your hopes in this government?

I hope that Tinubu will find good and competent Nigerians. Two, they will have excellent records of achievements in their different areas of life and a high level of personal integrity. Integrity is absolutely vital here and I will place it first. He should not appoint anybody with the slightest hint of corruption. Fighting corruption must be prioritised above everything. That is very important because we need good people to help run this country. I mean real good people, not just politicians who are being rewarded for doing one thing or the other during the electioneering period. We want the best for Nigerians. A nation of 200 million people, Nigerians are among the best brains in the world and they are willing to serve this country and pull it from the precipice where we stand.

I hope President Tinubu will find those people and he should thrust responsibility on them and also hold them responsible. I hope he will find these people because corruption has to be fought to a standstill. It is eating the heart of this country. Corruption is responsible for all the insecurity that you find around, at the bottom of it, you will find corruption. It is responsible for the recession in the economy, it is responsible for the lack of faith of the citizen in government and their leaders. It is responsible for the moral corruption we see among our youth. It is corruption that is destroying this country and unless we prioritise the fight against corruption, you will never get anything done. Because for every Naira you put on the table, 90 kobos of it will be stolen by the people you put in charge of it. So, Tinubu appointees must be able to fight corruption and fight it well without becoming victims of corruption. They have to break the circle. Public office is not for corrupt people. We have people who have just been sworn in weeks ago. From the way they conducted their campaigns and the lots of money spent, you will know the only reason they are skimming to get into public offices. It is not to serve but to steal public funds. Those people must be stopped and the only way they can be stopped is if President Tinubu and Vice President Shettima genuinely live above board, they must not be corrupt and they must not tolerate corruption. They must be surrounded by people whose only desire to be in office is to serve. He needs good people and good ideas. No doubt these are in abundance in the country. Let him take his time, look for them, and less attention to politics. Tinubu should emphasis competence over politics and integrity over political patronage. I am not sure Nigeria can stand another eight years of poor governance.

How did the forum galvanize support for Tinubu’s victory in the Northern region?

Well, I think some people outside the North still don’t understand the North. The North is politically sophisticated. The North gave each of the four candidates their largest votes. The north is plural, it is both Christian and Muslim and it is politically sophisticated. The decision of the North to give Tinubu 63% of the votes he got was because it saw in Tinubu a promise and I hope he will not disappoint them.